Member Investment & Dedication

Maybe I'm just unlucky or come from an older school of forum-based roleplayers (I'm almost touching mid-twenties now, so I guess that's a possibility haha), but I'm finding that it has becoming increasingly hard to find members that are both invested and dedicated in forum roleplayers. Sure by posting our advertisements everywhere, we are ending up with anybody having the ability to join up, and that's certainly no bad thing.

However, I'm finding these key features of member investment (perhaps what I'm after here is "interest" over investment, or perhaps "fan-girling") to be severely lacking in most roleplayers I've met now:

• Regular posting (I don't see any harm in posting sporadically, but once every two weeks or more often would be nice).
• (Shown) Excitement about on-site events and their own threads.
• Interested in (and shown interest in) site going-ons (game updates, new features etc).
• Get involved in game discussions for the future development of new feature or revised features/feedback stuff.
• Ask questions about game worlds.
• Eager to thread with others.
• Interaction OOC with others.
• They clearly enjoy roleplaying where they're a member.

I remember as a player and as an admin when I was always surrounded by all of this, by everyone. When you have members like this, it is so fantastic! As a player, it's a complete joy to be a member of such a community, and as an admin I'd really love that sort of community.

The problem is, encouraging members to be like this (or finding the right members that are already like this).

My current site's a baby, but on my old site, Sizael (which turned five last year a few months before it closed) there was this sort of memberbase at one point. I'm seeing this lack of interest/dedication/care around a lot of roleplay forums, and it really makes me wonder why any of us do it still. When I join a site, unless I'm a reader (like I am on Shadowlack lol), I like to get fully behind everything happening on site as a committed fangirling member. I love how sites like Souls (for example) have managed to keep this sort of dedication from their members going strong.

Here are the questions!

Do you feel forum-based (or Nova-based) roleplayers' attitudes have changed in the past three or so years?

As an admin, how can you encourage this sort of community dedication/investment/fangirling?

 

My sympathies about Sizael. Tellius was also five years old when we closed it a short time later. It's a tough decision.

Like you, I've seen a lot of laziness and a major lack of enthusiasm from members. Maybe we're just doing it wrong, but also like you, I remember a time when most of my members were very invested and excited to do things. Now I feel like I have to pull teeth just to get people to participate together. The last couple of events I've thrown, I was pretty excited for. The first couple really got the members active and participating, but these last few have been really lacking participation. Myself and two other members are the only ones who seemed invested. I have two more events on the horizon (one for next month and one for May) and I always have a lot of ambitious ideas but... It's hard to do a whole lot when it seems like it's just you and a couple other members who care...

I don't know if it's the over-all roleplaying community that has lost its spark but I do feel like the people I try to pool from have. You know? It seems every resource site I'm on, they're either already super invested in their own sites or sites they're already on (can't blame them for that, I'm the same way) or they're all about themselves and just want to keep making new sites and dropping them two weeks later. There's also those people who half-heartedly join a site and leave without really trying it out. Or they just find it's not for them, which is totally understandable. But when it comes to loyal members who are on a site but not doing much... That's a pain. I've been trying to get my members invested in events and posting and stuff but... The spirit does seem lacking.

I want to look for people outside the usual communities because I feel like I see the same old people over and over again. So I've been thinking of trying alternative forms of advertising (some stuff I did with fandom sites, too, that I'm going to try for my own site... Let's see how it works.)

That also makes it harder, though. Running a non-fandom board is more difficult in a lot of aspects. With fandoms, you have built in member bases all over the internet.

Anyway, I don't know how to encourage members to fangirl again. I'm still trying.

 

Hey @Zozma! Long time no see! Closing Sizael was strangely enough one of the hardest decisions I've ever had to make. Tellius was a site I was familiar with and peeked in at from time to time, and I was saddened to see it go. Do you feel closing Tellius was the right thing to do now that you have hindsight? It's been a few months now since I closed Sizael and I wish I hadn't. It was the best decision I could make considering the causes for closing it, and it also just wasn't the same without the fangirling, investment or dedication that it once saw from all of it's members.

Agreeing with your feelings there! It's really hard to keep your own momentum going as a staff member with such a lack of these traits within the memberbase. You're constantly worrying what you've done wrong and how you can improve things, when it probably is just a case of the wrong memberbase, or the idea that playing a game isn't a committment anymore. The lack of appeared interest from other members can be so disheartening too. It's kind of like a drama club - in those members are pretty pro-group and proactive, and at one point I think that level of excitement that comes with such groups was definitely around the RP communities. Now it's just gone poof. I've got an upcoming event on Tournstone which will be bringing in the first surge in movement in the storyline, but I'm worried because this same lack is present in the (admittedly very small right now) memberbase.

Agreed. A huge part of Sizael's draw in the area of member registration from was from another directory, and that's currently the main spot on the internet I advertise Tournstone (via my signature mostly). I've always used them as my first go-to for an advertising directory of sites too, so it does feel like I'm knocking on a lot of locked doors with the same less-enthusastic people. I don't think it helps that so many are now in the mindset of either (seemingly) being worried a site will close, or that they can just join another one if they do not get the reaction they were expecting within the first forty-eight hours. Looking at the bitly stats for the link in my signature (and at least two others' signatures), we've had over three hundred clicks since the 28th of January, and only two registrations due to that or the guest-drop-adverts I have done so far. The other two members heard about it as it was being worked on, and joined pretty fast.

I used to use Twitter a lot for Sizael - it was the perfect platform (when embedded into the site as a widget) for teasing about upcoming possible and confirmed events, and for shouting out quick pieces of news, but this lack of (I'm just going to call it fangirling to save typing "fangirling, committment and investment" from here on out) fangirling showed that it wasn't effective with this newer mindset of not caring as much or using it as a way to wave away the time. In terms of promotion, Tumblr and Facebook were complete busts. This time round I'm going to be blogging about Tournstone on Wordpress - that might work a little. I can't be sure yet, but we will see! Other than that, I'm pretty much coming up empty for ways to (successfully) advertise that isn't through directories or advert dropping.

I've no idea either. I would love to see this again on my new site (as I'm worried that without that level of interest from other players that the whole thing will crash and burn XD) but I have no idea how to even find roleplayers in that mindset anymore. I was wondering though if perhaps my going from being unemployed to later becoming employed had anything to do with it, but I think overall that didn't really affect much - I was still posting and loitering daily.

 

Condolences to both of you on the closures of your sites. Closing a site, especially one that's lived as long as either of yours has, I couldn't imagine to be easy.
I was rather shocked when Sizael closed down (we were affiliates and every now and again I'd go check on Sizael to see what was new and exciting).


Zozma, I agree with most of your post... But this part in particular:

Just so true.


For a while I actually dropped off one major directory site for over a year (only just now returned) because of those very attitudes (they weren't the only reasons I left, there were two others. But they're not as important.) and the fact that it didn't seem to matter what I tried, I couldn't gain members from there. (Because like you mentioned, they're only super involved in their own sites.)

I've felt like one of the biggest weakness of roleplaying right now is the fact that people cannot compromise at all. They need to have everything perfect for them and them alone. (Which naturally almost no site, except possibly their own, is going to give them.)
This attitude isn't exactly new, I've seen it before too (especially during the massive Harry Potter boom where there were dozens of sites opening up just so one person could play out their Hermione/Draco ship or whatever), but it just seems like it's gotten worse now. And until this attitude of "me, me, me..." really starts to go away, I can't see things improving too much.



As for how to improve the state of a roleplay...

That's an extremely tough one. I think it's hard to really get the energy flowing when you look at your own site and see so little interest already. It's exhausting to run a site and try to always keep things going when you've got little to no interest returning. I've heard so many people say "just get more staff to help" but that's a heck of a lot easier to say than do. (Considering the number of flakes and whatnot...)

And like mentioned above, when getting new blood into a site isn't working it can really be difficult to help keep things going. I mean for my own site here, our site is only 4 years old itself... But most of us have known each other and been on the same site(s) since 2005. (Which is something I do worry about... I mean I wonder if we've got a very cliquish attitude that I'm just not seeing because we've been together so long.)

And I can say that I've felt the exact same way on my site that you've mentioned Draegon... sitting there looking at it and wondering what I was doing wrong. Seeing members sign on but do nothing. No posts anywhere... Not in the roleplays or even OOC. I kept feeling like I was failing and there was nothing I could do to engage people.

But the worst feeling was when talks of activity levels would start. I hate seeing them start up in the chatbox and I will fully admit that I will delete comments regarding activity levels. I think it looks poor to have people leaving comments like: "Well glad to things picking up" or "Hey, it's some activity".
I just want to shout: "Instead of sitting in the shoutbox talking about activity... feel free to contribute some."
But I don't because that would be rude and wouldn't help solve the issue (since then they'd either get defensive or say things like: "I dunno what to post".)

And while I type this, I'm gearing up for the 3rd "Deadliest Warrior" event and hoping this time that it doesn't just fizzle out like the last one. People say they want it but I hope that after I go through the time/energy to post it they participate. (I mean it burns my butt a bit to spend time and energy working on something that just gets ignored or let go. Like "why did I even bother?" type feeling.)


As for advertising, it's necessary but it's incredibly hard to advertise successfully since people have gotten accustomed to tuning ads out. So in order to really do well, need to think outside the box and use less conventional methods.

I've been thinking for my own site to try a few different methods of advertising. I mean tumblr, twitter and social networks are nice (and I flat out refuse to use facebook) but you need huge followings to really get any members and I have neither the time nor skill to get followers. So I haven't really put much time and effort into them. I'd love to be large enough to have a staff team of someone who could help out and handle some of the things I'm terrible at.

 

Hey there @VirusZero !

I have to say your site has never looked unwelcoming to potential members, but as I haven't tried joining I could be wrong (but you do look ok).

I definitely agree with the idea that people are less likely to compromise nowadays. I currently have two other active members on my new site, and as you've described, lack of enthusiasm or excitement that is visible is really knocking the wind out of my sails as an admin already. I was wary to open a new board for this fear about the other roleplayers being less fangirlish, and now it's happening. I can keep going, but I certainly won't force myself this time round to keep being the only one excited on my board for too many months.

Ok, so we all have mentioned the need to advertise in a different manner, but do we have any ideas? I know I'm struggling quite a bit to come up with something - the only way that seemed to work for Sizael was to drop guest advertisements.

 

There are the standards like:
- Directories
- Guest ad sections (which for the longest time I refused to use, only recently did I start allowing it. So we'll see what happens here...)
- Twitter
- Tumblr
- Facebook
- Livejournal (maybe? I've never really tried it. But if you have a twitter account already you can use openID to get a livejournal account easily enough.)

Which people are used to. (And are likely getting used to ignoring...)

I mean the above methods shouldn't be ignored at all. But they should be used with a level of healthy skepticism of how effective they actually are.

But other ideas I've been considering...
- I want to get a couple t-shirts done up with my site's logo/url on it so that I can wear them and maybe have people ask or see the url and go check it out. (This isn't likely to be cheap... probably 25 or so per shirt... but for the amount of potential advertising afterwards it could be worth it.)
- Business cards with the url on them. (This way I could just drop them at like cafes or etc...)
- A youtube video (I don't know how effective this would be... but it couldn't hurt right?)
- Perhaps going to a local library or something and leaving some flyers (or business cards or something) about the site and post them there if they have a bulletin board area. (Writing sites afterall might be accepted at libraries...)

 

Enthusiastic people attract other enthusiastic people, and enthusiastic people often end up being the most dedicated.

When your site is small, it's very important to set a good example -- be active yourself, be enthusiastic, engage your membership in any way you can. When a site is bigger, like 'Souls, it already has a lot of momentum, and the membership takes turns being enthusiastic, so to speak. (This is why I can get away with being sometimes inactive as a roleplayer on 'Souls -- there are plenty of others that are filling in that 'enthusiastic' role for me while I take care of things behind the scenes. It's a lot harder when your site is small and you don't have as many members to spread around the love.)

I pretty much agree with Iversia as far as how forum RP attitudes have changed over the years.

I've handed out 'Souls postcards at anime/comic conventions before with varying success. They're always displayed with a sign that says "free, if you ask me about the game" or "free, if you talk to me about post-apocalyptic werewolf rp," forcing people to actually engage me about the game. I've spoken to a lot of people that seem interested, but I'm not sure that I've actually gotten a member this way.

On the flip side, me posting 'Souls-related artwork on art websites has gotten us members a few times before. Are they the "right" kind? I dunno, but I think the percentage of "right" members is about the same no matter where you go -- it's just luck getting them. Honestly I think a big part of 'Souls's success is the fact that it got so many of the "right" members so early in its life, and they were able to start that cycle of enthusiasm early on.

 

Morning guys!

Agreed @VirusZero. There's also links in signatures as one of the standards, but I can statistically prove that that too can't be relied on:



These are the stats for Tournstone since 28th January 2013. Most of those days the link-throughs are coming straight from my signature on another resource directory. The three days that have the post link-throughs are those days where I spent at least four hours guest dropping advertisements. And the results? I've had five members join besides myself; four joined through their knowing me on the resource directory, and one joined either because of my signature or from coming through a guest advertisement. There's two other members besides myself that are still active out of those, and they're not as fangirly (at least not that I can see).

I found Twitter was incredibly useful for helping to build up excitement and interest, but the community had to already be interested in the game for that to cause such a reaction. I've never known any original boards that gained members through Twitter though.

For T-shirt designs, I have to admit I considered them for Sizael, and two of my ex-members and I have a few designs we're thinking of getting done. I'd recommend Red Bubble for T-Shirts, and maybe using a short memorable bit.ly link on the T-shirt itself.

@Iversia

I used to be part of a LARP group that did both - we met up in person every month or so (depending on if we could find a pro-LARPing location), and then there was the forum for the days in between. It worked out pretty well.

Do you have a piccie of the business cards? I'd love to see them!

@Kiriska

I've found that sometimes being the enthusastic member doesn't always bring in similar roleplayers. I wish it were as easy as being enthusastic! Other than an admin being enthusastic themselves, do you have any tips for generating that kind of feel at the beginning of a board's existence when that perhaps isn't working?

 

Draegon,
I'd probably go with the full url (since it might be easier to remember than like bit.ly/AeTh3) and plus if they forget the TLD they could still google the name and land right at us.
Though thanks for the tip on Redbubble. I might have to join and get a couple shirts done up. (Maybe when I get my new phone I'll get a case from them done up too... since that could be nice also.)

Iversia,
Those are some nice looking cards. (And those are ones classed as rejects?)
Who did you use to get them printed? (Was it like a website or a local shop?) And, if I may ask, roughly how much did they cost?

 

Gotprint.com is FABULOUS for bizcards. I get my personal ones from them and it's something like $40+ship for a 1000 color, full gloss, double-sided cards? I forget since 1000 cards lasts me like 2 years lol.

@Draegon, unfortunately I do ultimately think a lot of it is luck. The right people showing up at the right time, etc. The right people for your board may not be looking at your avenues of advertisement. Your board could be exactly what they want and what they're looking for, but your paths don't cross for whatever reason. I guess the best advice I have is to just keep trying and to be patient. I guess I'm also fortunate in that I pretty much inherited 'Souls, so I don't have a lot of experience in actually creating a new board. The landscape of RP was so different 12 (!) years ago anyway that even if I had created 'Souls, my experience wouldn't be applicable at all, haha.

 

Gotprint has a lot cheaper prices for cards than Aladdin Print... (12.50 for 500 US standard business cards, color front B&W back on 14pt cardstock... doesn't seem to matter whether they're UV coated or not. The only issue I have is it'd cost me almost 70$ to have them shipped to me.)

I may have to look for something a bit more local...

 

Ah, yeah...international shipping gets crazier and crazier every year... :(

 

Sorry I didn't reply straight away!

@Iversia I would never have thought to make a print-able poster for others to put up around places. I love your business cards too - they'd make me look Shadowlack over if I didn't already know of it XD

@VirusZero

That's very true, though you can personalise the last bit of the bit.ly links now. Tournstone's is it's name hehe!

For business cards, if you're in the US, it may be worth looking at jukeboxprints.com I think their prices aren't too bad, and you can get interesting shapes :) I'm UK-based so that's the only thing really that puts me off going with them. I have a local chap though I'm going to get a quote for so I can give out business cards for the web hosting I provide. I'm admittedly not too sold yet on Tournstone's survival chances, and as a result about spending cash on it. As for Sizael? I'm still loving that site a lot and have recently commissioned a new art piece XD

 

Oh, I didn't know you could customize bit.ly's links now. That would make them more useful.
(I still don't know if I would use bit.ly though because the resulting url would still likely be longer than my domain url and I have Google Analytics for handling referrals, search terms and etc... Unless there are some other benefits I'm unaware of?)

Jukeboxprint.com's shipping is still 40$ and they're in Vancouver, BC... And it ends up working out to be the same price for buying/shipping the cards as it does for Gotprint. So sick of inflated shipping costs.

Has anyone ever tried Vistaprint?


As for Tournstone, I think it has a pretty good chance of lasting. The premise is pretty unique. (At least it is to me anyway. )
The documents provide enough detail to get in and playing without being overburdeningly long.
The site's theme is pretty easy on the eyes (no tiny fonts, difficult to read fonts, bad contrast, excessive use of hover/rollover codes, etc...)
And it's not like this is your first site so you do know what you're doing... (Both from a technical standpoint on the ins/outs of site building and maintenance and the operation/management aspects.)

 

I really feel like the "serial creation" has had a negative effect on a lot of genres in forum-based role plays. I've noticed a real sick trend of people starting sites and abandoning them after a few weeks if they only get four or five different people interested while they create characters like crazy. So far, I haven't had much issue with my members. I show enthusiasm in the site, which in turn seems to spur them on to doing the same.

Most of the focus from site admin seems to be on getting as many members as quickly as possible, but a lot of them have extremely strict word counts, plot points, application processes, and oh the amount of stuff you have to read just to be able to pick a character's name is insane! I remember a more simple day where applications were an optional touch and you could find one site with every genre under the sun including areas for random one on one plot ideas. I think the idea of limiting people to one genre, forcing them to complete 2000 word applications for each character, and then going on to demand they post once a day everyday for the rest of their lives is really restrictive and not at all good for character development or even story telling.

My current site is new, and it is a single fandom, but I do my best to just spend time on the site talking to my members. One line of conversation that seems to get them more invested in my site in particular is talking to them about their experiences with other sites. It can get a little dangerous, so be prepared to delete any name drops, but giving them a chance to vent about what they didn't like helps me to better understand what I can do to make a more productive and stimulating environment for the players I'd like to attract.

 

@VirusZero I've used Vistaprint for business cards I designed for my boss. I don't know if they overcompensated for the cutting, but the cards came out smaller than average even though I selected the normal size. Quality is good though. I think they cost me about £50 in total, and that was only for 250 of them.

 

Do you feel forum-based (or Nova-based) roleplayers' attitudes have changed in the past three or so years?

Nope, but then I get my members via google exclusively atm, since we barely advertise and were in open beta. I do not think attitudes of roleplayers have changed, but I do think that the people who run the boards... grew up - or failed to move on. A lot of what I tend to see are people harping on about "how things used to be" instead of accepting that people change, genre's evolve and roleplaying is a creative and dynamic hobby which will follow trends as much as anything else on the internet.

It's the opposite, attitudes have not changed they have stayed the same.


As an admin, how can you encourage this sort of community dedication/investment/fangirling?

Stop focusing on trying to encourage these things and just be creative? I agree with the sentiment above, it is just luck most of the time and try and we might sometimes it just doesn't work. However, if you are excited about the project, then it will help others to be. Moaning in public about how your membership are lazy, uninspiring and wrong for your game is only going to breed negativity.